Look at the freeway sign in the Betzner photo. Get a sense for the size of it and the angle of it. Also, be sure to observe Zapruder up on the pedestal. 

Now, here it is in the Zapruder film.

The most important thing is to determine the angle of the sign to the street. And we know what angle it was: 90 degrees. And that's how it looks. That's the most readable angle for street signs. 

But, the angle to the street is much less in the Zapruder film. It is facing the street more. 

So, which one is real? Betzner. The sign in Zapruder is bogus. 
 

The only thing good about Ed Brotherton is that he gets me to write more about 9/11. I consider him an Op, a troll, and he is like a cyclops because the fact is: you can't say that 9/11 was an inside job, as he supposedly does, but then support all the particulars of the official narrative, which he definitely does.

Imagine you are at the Project for a New American Century meeting where they decide that they're going to have a "new Pearl Harbor" in order to get the wars they wanted. So, they come up with 9/11. And they come up with the whole story about the Arab hijackers, and the boxcutters, etc. Why would they actually do it that way, especially when they didn't have to? That way was risky; extremely risky. It could easily backfire. It could easily go wrong. You couldn't just assume that 4 hijackers would be successful at overcoming 40 people on a plane and just because they had boxcutters. THAT'S A STORY THAT YOU TELL, NOT A STORY THAT YOU DO. They had the resources of the whole U.S. government and military at their disposal, and the cooperation of a compliant media. They didn't have to chance actually trying to take over planes. There is no reason to think that they did that. And it would be awfully stupid to think that it was a sure thing that couldn't go wrong.

Note first that even in 2001, it was mandatory to keep cockpit doors closed and locked. And it was for good reason because there were already cockpit incursions before 9/11 and plenty of them.

In August 2000, a man burst into the cockpit of a Southwest flight from Las Vegas to Salt Lake City. Passengers jumped to their feet and went after the guy, and they BEAT HIM TO DEATH. You hear that, Brotherton? They beat him to death.

In March 2000, a man burst into the cockpit of a Spanish flight, but the pilots and crew quickly overcame him.

Also in March 2000, a man burst into the cockpit of an Alaska Airlines flight out of Puerto Vallarta, and the pilots, with help from passengers, overcame him quickly.

In December 1999, a man with an 8 inch knife burst into the cockpit of a Japanese flight. He did manage to stab the pilot in the neck, but the co-pilot and another pilot who was a passenger overcame him. Did I mention that he had an 8 inch knife?

In December 1999, a guy bursts into the cockpit of a British Airlines flight from London to Nairobi and struggled with the pilots. The plane did plunge 1000 feet during the struggle, but they overcame him.

Here is a picture of the crash scene at Shaksville.

Now, anyone who defends the idea that a real 757 crashed there is not a real 9/11 truther; he is a dis-info Op. That's what the CIA does. They get ordinary-seeming people to infiltrate groups like this and then spread their dis-info. I've seen it countless times. They do it a lot in the JFK realm as well.

Bottom line is that you can't marry the inside job story with the official narrative. They don't go together like peas and carrots. They don't go together at all. Yes, 9/11 was an inside job, and therefore, the entire official 9/11 narrative is a crock of shit.

 

Ed Brotherton

Ralph Cinque I'm ex Air Force Security Police trained in anti-terrorism and anti-hijacking. I was also a member of our 60th Security Police Emergency Services Team.

It's very easy armchair quarterback a situation that you've had 20 years to think about. A convenience that the passengers on that tragic day didn't have.

The hijackers didn't ask the pilots to give them the controls. They murdered the pilots the moment they entered the cockpit leaving the pilots with no choice but to try and defend themselves instead of notifying anyone of a hijacking or changing the transponder to 7500 indicating hijacking.

Furthermore we know that the some of hijackers informed the passengers there was a bomb on board. This would have caused anyone who was thinking of taking on the hijackers physically to think twice since there is a chance of detonating the bomb. This is why the passengers didn't get all Die Hard on them.

It wasn't until flight 93 when the passengers discovered that other planes had crashed into the WTC that they decided to fight back.

There are literally thousand and thousands of data points to 9/11 and for you to say "it's all a lie" is lazy and a convenience that way you can just throw it all out and proclaim you figured it all out when in fact you don't shit.

I gave you the insight of two Air Force Veterans and you dismiss what we say. You clearly have no clue what you're talking about and you should be ashamed of yourself for putting out utter nonsense.

Ralph Cinque: Ed Brotherton You have no right to assume as fact that the pilots were killed- even though it's part of the official narrative. If it were true, Todd Beamer and the others surely would have "rolled" sooner, and I mean immediately- as soon as it started going down that the pilots were being attacked. And nothing the hijackers "announced" would have deterred them. Why would they believe anything the hijackers said? If hijackers were attacking the pilots on a plane that you were on, wouldn't you get up and fight? How could you not? And in this case, the pilots were bigger men, plus Todd and his chums were big men. Those hijackers would not have had a chance, despite their "boxcutters." The airline industry did its own security prior to 9/11, and they already prohibited bringing boxcutters on planes. So, the scanners would have picked them up and stopped it. EVERYTHING that is claimed about United 93 is a lie. It did not crash at that site in Pennsylvania. It was blown up. Debris from the plane was found 8 miles away. If the plane was intact until the second it hit the ground, how could that happen? And no debris was found at the crash site: just some skidmarks, scorched earth, and a hole in the ground. That is not a crash site. No jetliner crashed there. The black box from UA93 was found, but it's contents were never revealed to the public. The whole claim of cell phone calls from 33,000 feet in 2001 is highly suspect. We shouldn't believe anything about the official story of UA93 or any of the other 9/11 flights. Hani Hanjour did not do a 270 degree corkscrew turn and slam AA77 into the Pentagon. There was very little plane wreckage there either. The whole 9/11 story is a lie. It's not just that it was an inside job; everything about it is a lie.

Ed Brotherton

Ralph Cinque I believe 9/11 was an inside job but let's keep things in perspective. There were real hijackers and real planes involved. The US was complicit along with other foreign entities.

Ralph Cinque: If it was an inside job, say that originated at Project for a New American Century, as many believe, how could there be real hijackers? They weren't going to depend on real hijackers to take over planes with boxcutters. The whole idea is untenable. I don't know how big a man you are, but let's say you were a pilot on a 9/11 plane, and these guys demanded that you turn over the cockpit to them. Are you going to do it? Because of boxcutters? "Here. Take the controls. Just don't hurt me." You think the pilots did that rather than fight? And the same goes for the passengers. Those big guys on United 93 would not have waited to "roll." They would have rolled from from the start and taken it to the hijackers, whom they had vastly outnumbered. It was 40 people vs 4 hijackers. 40 people, which included men who were much bigger than any of the hijackers, could have and would have taken down 4 hijackers- no matter the boxcutters. It's not just that it was an inside job. it's that the whole story is a lie. And so are you, by the way because you can't be that stupid. And guess what? I'm making you famous.

Ralph Cinque: And Marc Sasseville really should be courtmartialed. We are a nation of laws and not men, and no one has the right to decide himself to kill 40 innocent people. And that's why the media has conveniently left out mention of the 40 innocent people that Sasseville and Penney would have killed, had they done what they intended.

Marc Sasseville should be courmartialed 

Now I have found frank statements showing there were no orders for them to commit suicide. 

Heather Penney said neither of them had second thoughts about flying their F-16s into the plane. "As the military, we don't send our service members on suicide missions. But it was clear what needed to be done that morning," she said.

That order did not come through the chain of command — the pilots had taken it upon themselves. "We didn't have any other choice. And we weren't going to be caught on the ground watching America get hit again," Sasseville said.

RC: So, despite vague references to it being an order, and the media reporting it that way, this is a frank statement showing that it was their idea: Sasseville and Penney. 

The order did not come through the chain of command. So, why is the media saying that it did?

US pilot ordered to go on 9/11 kamikaze mission to bring down hijacked jet

According to Sasseville, he ordered Penney on the suicide mission. He just went up to her and said. “Lucky, you’re coming with me,” barked Col. Marc Sasseville.

RC: Now, who would order anyone on a suicide mission like that? And why did he pick her, a young woman. Were'n't any of his old flying buddies around? 

They were gearing up in the pre-flight life-support area when Sasseville, struggling into his flight suit, met her eye.

“I’m going to go for the cockpit,” Sasseville said.

She replied without hesitating.

“I’ll take the tail.”

RC: Who implies suicide? Who talks around it? Who leaves it up to chance whether the person undertands that you mean suicide?

So, with no authority whatsoever- and you can't cite me any statue by which he was authorized to order someone on a suicide mission,- he decided that her life was worth ending.  But, wouldn't he be direct with her about it?  Didn't he owe her that much?

The way they have recalled the conversation, there is no way to assume that they talked directly about suicide. 

This is the most unAmerican thing I have ever heard. We are supposed to be a country that values life and the right to life. It's bad enough that we have a long history of a military draft that cost men their lives- by the millions.  Yet, there is a big difference between putting a person in combat, which is very dangerous, but where they have a chance to survive, and ordeing them to die; telling them that "It's your time to die. We need something from you- your life." That is unAmerican. It was Imperial Japanese. It's Talibanese. But, it is not American.  And we should not be celebrating it. 

So, despite the many headlines saying that it was an assignment, I am absolutely sure now that if you nailed it down with them, that they will admit, as they have, that NOBODY ordered them to die. 

So, it was a self-directed mission, but there are no self-directed missions in the Military. It's a top-down organization. Nobody just does what they want. Everybody follows orders. And I don't know how high up Sasseville was at the time, but I know damn well that he did not have the authority to order anyone on a suicide mission.

According to this statement, he did directly speak to her about suicide.

Sasseville told Lieutenant Penney Garcia that it could cost both of their lives to bring down Flight 93. 

But, that's bull shit too because there was no "could" about it. It was definitely going to cost them their lives. If you crash your plane into another plane, you're dead. 

And in absolutely none of the media reports about this, and I've read dozens, have they mentioned the fact that they would have killed all the passengers and crew on the plane. How smart do you have to be to realize that those people were going to die too? So, what gave Sasseville the right and the authority to decide that it was worth it to kill all those people? What gave him the legal right to do it? 

He had no such right. It wasn't his decision. And as I said, nobody is talking about the fact that they would have killed all those people. 

And frankly, I don't think they're even thinking about it. They're too fucking stupid to think about it.  You might say that they just forgot about that aspect of it. 

Those passenger and crew were innocent civilians. He had no right to take it on himself to decide to kill innocent civillians. He needs to be courtmartialed.  

Today is the 20th anniversary of 9/11. The 9/11 Truth Movement is, by far, the most prominent and successful and effective challenge to State lies in human history, although the U.S. Media completely ignores it.

The fanfare has begun, and I am startled to see what they have come up with this morning. They are claiming that a pair of Air Force pilots went on a suicde mission, in which they were going to ram their planes into United 93 to stop the terrorists. One of those two pilots, a female, Heather Penney, has become the face of it.

If you watch this video, you'll hear that "she was asked to give her life for her country."

 https://abcnews.go.com/US/video/remembering-911-fighter-pilot-suicide-mission-flight-93-79908880

But then, when she tells it, it sounds more like she and the other pilot weren't asked, that it was their own decision. 

"She went to arm her aircraft, but there wasn't enough time. She and another pilot, Marc Sasseville, had to get in the air.

"We did not have missiles. We were on a suicide mission. And in order to be able to take any airliner down, Sass would ram his aircraft into the cockpit where the terrorists were, to destroy the flight controls," she explained. "I would take the tail by ramming my jet into the tail of the aircraft, I would aerodynamically unbalance the airplane and tip it over so it would crash straight into the ground by targeting both ends of the aircraft. It was our plan to prevent any additional casualties."

RC: Prevent any additional casualties? What about the crew and passengers on the plane? Wouldn't they count as casualties?

First, the U.S. Military has never sanctioned suicide missions. That is a Taliban thing, for Christ's sake! And of course, the Japanese did it in World War 2 with their Kamikazi missions. 

The other pilot was Marc Sasseville, and he was just as vague about whether he was ordered to do it. 

In this telling of it, it was entirely their idea.

https://people.com/celebrity/911-f-16-pilot-marc-sasseville-was-prepared-for-kamikaze-mission/

In this telling, it was entirely his idea, where he just told her "to get her butt up there." So, that's how he got her to go on a suicide mission? No solemn, heavy, weighing of the matter, but just a quick, "Get your butt up there." ? That's all there was to it? Are you buying that? 

https://www.history.com/news/911-heather-penney-united-flight-93

But then, in this telling of it, it sounds like he was ordered, in so many words, to do it.

"We had gotten a call from the White House Joint Operations Center, and they could see the picture," Sasseville said. "They knew that Flight 93 had turned back. And they had basically asked if we had any airplanes that could go up the river." It made perfect sense what they were being asked to do, Sasseville said.

That is poorly worded because it changes abruptly from first person to third. But, "they" refers to Sasseville and Penney, and somehow "going up the river" was code for: crash your planes into United 93 and kill everyone aboard and yourselves. There is no other way to read it. 

I say this is a pile of horse shit, and I call on everyone to reject it. Not only has the U.S. Military not had a policy of suicide missions, but, the United States is not Afghanistan. Obviously, there are suicides in this country, but our culture does not embrace suicide. We don't celebrate it. We don't promise anyone dates and virgins if they do it. And that applies within the Military as well. Culturally, we value life. We value the life of the individual. 

Heather Penney was 27 years old in 2001, and she was still a rookie pilot. There is no reason to think she had given any thought whatsoever to suicide, and the idea that she would settle into doing it, in an instant, because this guy told her to get her butt up there is preposterous. People don't decide to kill themselves on that basis. It takes time to overcome the internal revulsion to it.  And especially in a 27 year old. She had a life and loved ones. She wasn't a combat pilot. She was a rookie in training. And the very idea that the United States government would send a 27 year old woman on a suicide mission is insane. If anything, we would send a man. Remember for how long that there were no women in the Military, period. And then it became that there were women in the Military but not in combat roles. She was in training as a fighter pilot, but she was never in combat. It would be a very heavy decision to send anyone on such a mission. But to send a 27 year old woman? And by way of a guy telling her to get her butt up there so that they could die?

Surely, if there were going to be a suicide mission, it would involve soliciting volunteers. No way would the Military just order someone, "You go die now. That's an order."

So, how could Marc Sasseville just assume that Heather Penney was willing to die? And how could he treat the matter of her dying so flippantly, as in:

Normally, preflight preparation for F-16 fighter jets takes a half-hour, allowing pilots to methodically work through a checklist. Being a rookie, Penney’s only combat experience was in training. As they ran out to their planes, she started going through the checklist. Sasseville stopped her and barked, “Lucky, what are you doing? Get your butt up there and let’s go!” She quickly climbed into her cockpit. As she powered up the engines, she shouted to the ground crew to pull the chock blocks holding the wheels.

Men protect women. In the Military, men protect women. They also rape women, and there has been an awful lot of that in the Military.  But, when it comes to war and combat, a male soldier will always seek to protect a woman. And a man would NEVER be presumptuous about a woman sacrificing her life. And he would never treat the matter as glibly and crudely as "Get your butt up there." We are talking about dying here, and people don't trivialize dying that way.   

But, here is another version of it by Heather, and it doesn't include anything about her butt. According to her:

Sass's locker was just three down from mine. And I'm trying to go through "Okay, don't forget anything. Okay, got my helmet, I got my lineup card, I got my DTC, I've got my harness," and I was zipping up my G-suit When Sass looked at me and says: "I'll take the cockpit," meaning that he would ram his aircraft into the cockpit of the airliner if we found it. And I would take the tail.

Nobody talks around suicide. He wouldn't just say to a 27 year old woman, "I'll take the cockpit" with the assumption that she's going to understand from that that she is supposed to crash her plane into the tail and die.  

You can read the whole interview if you want. I'm thinking she was pretty nervous because she talked too much. She concluded by saying that anyone, meaning any American, would have done it, been willing to commit suicide after seeing what happened on 9/11. Is she kidding? Does she really believe that? That everyone watching the smoldering towers was thinking, "If only I could give my life..." More horse shit. I was watching it on tv, and at the time, I didn't know what to think. I wasn't a 9/11 truther at the time, as I am now. But, I never once had the thought, "If only I could give my life..." You think I'm alone? 

https://www.msnbc.com/podcast/transcript-heather-penney-lucky-n1252273

Heather Penney has a husband and two daughters. I don't know if she was married in 2001, or if she had kids yet. But, even if she didn't have kids yet, she was a woman of child-bearing age, and the idea of her destroying not only herself but her future children certainly would have weighed on her, heavily. The idea that she could so easily and quickly accept death and negate the whole future she had planned for herself, including children, just because a guy told her to get her butt on a plane, or because he told her that he'd take the cockpit, like they were playing basketball and he was going to guard somebody- this is not how people talk about ending their lives.  

Now, please remember that the whole God-damn story is horse shit! United 93 never crashed at that spot in Pennsylvania to get swallowed by the Earth leaving nothing but skid marks and a hole. It's insane to believe such a thing.

And you should adamantly refuse to believe this bull shit story about these would-be American Kamikazis. To me, it is the icing on the cake of the whole fucking 9/11 lie. 

  

 

 They were definitely not standing on that pedestal. Look how close to the sidewalk they were. Look how un-elevated they were. Look how the pedestal was not wide enough for both of them. And look how un-boiserous they would be if they were perched on it. 

So, they were on the grass at that point. Did they after that climb up on the pedestal? I suppose 11 year old Toni could have climbed up pretty easy, but what about her frumpy middle-aged mother? 

The image on the left below is not legit. Look how spindly the mother looks with impossibly narrow shoulders. And where are the mother's arms? The disparity in the height of Toni's shoulders is way out of line. Her hair is in a pony tail on the left but not on the right. 

This was all done because they used the image of Toni to hide Oswald in the doorway in the Hughes film. Oswald was right in the center of the doorway.