Robert Harris is a very devoted JFK researcher; there is no doubt about that. But, he's got some whacky ideas. He thinks Oswald was a shooter but that he missed, and that he may have missed deliberately.
But, Robert knows about the OIC and our contention about Oswald in the doorway.
And, at least now, he is asking questions about it. So that's a good sign.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Robert Harris: Please excuse me if this has been asked before. Frankly, I don't follow
threads which I don't believe are worth my time.
But if Oswald had been outside during the shooting, why didn't he say so?
He had a perfect opportunity when asked, "Did you shoot the President?".
All he had to say was,
"Hell no, I wasn't even in the building then. Other employees saw me
outside."
and if one argues that he just didn't think of that, then how is it that
the perps permitted Oswald to have a public press conference in which he
would be expected to mention such a perfect alibi?
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Robert, I don't mind answering the question, and I will. But first an announcement: Today, two more professors joined the Oswald Innocence Campaign: Dr. Jerry Kroth of Santa Clara University in California, and Dr. James Norwood of the University of Minnesota.
Another thing, before we proceed, is that we need to have the wisdom and maturity to realize that the images stand on their own merit, and they trump any and all considerations regarding behavior, psychology, and what you might expect Oswald to do or not do. All of that is trumped by the information the images provide.
And in this case, it is especially provident because there is only one other person on planet Earth that Doorman could have been: Lovelady. So, it's like a toggle switch. It's an either/or situation. And the content of those images are screaming that it's Oswald: his shirt, his t-shirt, his build, and little things like his ear, his chin, and more.
There are only two physical elements that have ever been linked to Lovelady: the shirt pattern and the hairline. The shirt pattern claim was entirely bogus from the beginning.
The splotchy pattern that we see on Doorman's shirt is mostly haze and distortion, but even if it was real, splotchy is not plaid. Plaid means horizontal and vertical lines crossing and forming boxes. There isn't one box on Doorman's shirt. Those patterns aren't remotely close to matching. That particular claim was just a lie from the beginning until now.
But, as for the other claim- the hairlines- it's true that Doorman's hairline matches that of Young Lovelady from the 1950s. But, Lovelady was a rapidly balding young man, and he'd lost a lot of hair by 1963.
If "they" were going to claim that Doorman was Lovelady, then surely they would have done something to Lovelady-ify him. That hairline is what they did to Lovelady-ify hm.
Are you aware that it's not Oswald's chin in the backyard photos? They moved his face over, but they left the other guy's chin, and that's because they knew it looks much more realistic if you don't try to interface the face and neck. It's better to do it at the level of the chin.
So, in that case, it was Oswald's face except for the chin, and in the Altgens photo, it's Oswald's face except for the forehead and hairline.
Now, finally, to answer your question:
If Oswald was outside, why didn’t he say so?
He did. He told Will Fritz that he was “out with Bill Shelley in front.”
How did he know Shelley was out there unless he was there with him? You can’t assume that he just figured Shelley was outside. Either he knew it or he didn’t. And Shelley didn’t have to be in that doorway. Shelley could have been on Elm; he could have been at the corner of Houston. He could have been down by the Grassy Knoll. Anything was possible.
There were 75 employees of the TSBD and most of them were outside; however, only a small handful were in the doorway. Oswald knowing that Shelley was in the doorway is huge; it is powerful. It shows that Oswald had direct knowledge of the circumstances in that doorway- who was there.
And he must have meant "during" the assassination and not after because Shelley wasn’t out there "after." Shelley left immediately with Lovelady for the tracks and re-entered through the back door. Shelley was not milling around out in front when Oswald left for home.
Now, as for the rest, you are making a lot of assumptions, Robert: unwarranted assumptions.
Oswald denied guilt many times. I don’t know the exact number, but it had to be at least 7 or 8. At times, he was adamant, but he was never as adamant as Ralph Cinque would be under the circumstances. And as to why, who knows? It may be that I am more adamant by nature and more easily enraged.
Oswald never really reacted all that angry. I would have reacted very angry, and my denials would have been fierce.
You ask why he didn’t scream to the reporters, “I was in the doorway!” Well, why didn’t he scream, “I work for the US government! I have connections to the FBI and the CIA. I am on their payroll. There are people who will vouch for me, that I am a US intelligence agent and have been for many years. I did not kill the President!”
Don’t you think if he had said that that it would at least have given pause to the idea that he was a lone-nut assassin? I should think that that would have been at least as effective as saying he was in the doorway.
You realize that he was only a few feet outside the building, and he was surrounded by building on 4 sides: left, right, above, and behind. And you could even say below. And he was quite a ways from the sidewalk in front. It was like he was in a cave.
If you were deep in a cave, but you could see the light at the opening, would you consider yourself inside or outside?
Remember that Oswald had no idea that his photograph was taken in that doorway. So, how really does it advance his innocence if he was a few feet out the door as opposed to being a few feet inside the door? Both are equally far from the 6th floor.
The question was framed by the reporter. “Were you inside the building at the time?” What if the reporter had asked, “Were you outside with the others watching the motorcade at the time?”
What would Oswald have said? I don’t know. But, neither do you, and neither does anyone else.
It’s possible that Oswald did not want to announce publicly that he was outside. To everyone who believes that Oswald was framed, please consider: There is no doubt that Oswald was allowed to wander around freely in the 45 minutes leading up to the shooting.
Why did they let him do that? Do you think it was good for the conspirators that Oswald ate lunch in the domino room in sight of Junior Jarmon and Harold Norman? Vince Bugliosi says that happened at 12:15, but some have criticized him for making it earlier than it was just to afford Oswald more time to get up to the 6th floor. They think the encounter was more like 12:20.
Well, either way- 12:15 or 12:20- it certainly wasn’t good for the official story.
And then he was seen by Carolyn Arnold after that, reportedly as late as 12:25. Obviously, if that sighting is true, it completely destroys the official story. He could not possibly have gotten up to the 6th floor in time.
So, why didn’t they just tell Oswald to stay out of sight those 45 minutes, or at least for the last 20.
But, what reason could they give him? The conspirators did not tell Oswald that they were killing Kennedy that day. Oswald asked Junior Jarmon why people were gathering on the sidewalk that morning. He didn’t know. You, Robert, aren’t assuming that he was putting on an act for Junior Jarmon, are you?
The conspirators couldn’t tell him anything, and that’s because they couldn’t be sure he would be killed summarily. As it is, it took them 2 days to get him properly killed, and in that time, he underwent 13 hours of interrogation. It might as well have been 13 years for all he could have told them.
So, the conspirators had to make sure that after being apprehended Oswald could report nothing that would incriminate them.
So, they let him wander around freely. They took a chance. I guess they figured they could always deny any crucial claims of him being seen. It was better than empowering him with their complicity in the murder.
However, we don’t know what his handlers told him, and maybe someone did tell him to remain inside. Perhaps that explains why he only barely went outside. And perhaps that’s why he didn’t mention it publicly in response to the reporter.
But later, at his police interrogation, he did tell Fritz that he was out with Bill Shelley in front.
Robert, this kind of inquiry is interesting, and I don’t mind probing it. But, it really doesn’t matter because the images establish beyond any doubt that Oswald WAS outside. And in that respect, all of this is just noise. It’s just distraction. Focus on the images. The images are the real evidence, the decisive evidence. Doorman, Robert, is wearing Oswald’s clothes. There is no way Lovelady was dressed like that. We have to snap out of it. This is mate. It’s over. It’s Oswald in the doorway, and noise doesn't make it go away.
Robert, I don't mind answering the question, and I will. But first an announcement: Today, two more professors joined the Oswald Innocence Campaign: Dr. Jerry Kroth of Santa Clara University in California, and Dr. James Norwood of the University of Minnesota.
Another thing, before we proceed, is that we need to have the wisdom and maturity to realize that the images stand on their own merit, and they trump any and all considerations regarding behavior, psychology, and what you might expect Oswald to do or not do. All of that is trumped by the information the images provide.
And in this case, it is especially provident because there is only one other person on planet Earth that Doorman could have been: Lovelady. So, it's like a toggle switch. It's an either/or situation. And the content of those images are screaming that it's Oswald: his shirt, his t-shirt, his build, and little things like his ear, his chin, and more.
There are only two physical elements that have ever been linked to Lovelady: the shirt pattern and the hairline. The shirt pattern claim was entirely bogus from the beginning.
The splotchy pattern that we see on Doorman's shirt is mostly haze and distortion, but even if it was real, splotchy is not plaid. Plaid means horizontal and vertical lines crossing and forming boxes. There isn't one box on Doorman's shirt. Those patterns aren't remotely close to matching. That particular claim was just a lie from the beginning until now.
But, as for the other claim- the hairlines- it's true that Doorman's hairline matches that of Young Lovelady from the 1950s. But, Lovelady was a rapidly balding young man, and he'd lost a lot of hair by 1963.
If "they" were going to claim that Doorman was Lovelady, then surely they would have done something to Lovelady-ify him. That hairline is what they did to Lovelady-ify hm.
Are you aware that it's not Oswald's chin in the backyard photos? They moved his face over, but they left the other guy's chin, and that's because they knew it looks much more realistic if you don't try to interface the face and neck. It's better to do it at the level of the chin.
So, in that case, it was Oswald's face except for the chin, and in the Altgens photo, it's Oswald's face except for the forehead and hairline.
Now, finally, to answer your question:
If Oswald was outside, why didn’t he say so?
He did. He told Will Fritz that he was “out with Bill Shelley in front.”
How did he know Shelley was out there unless he was there with him? You can’t assume that he just figured Shelley was outside. Either he knew it or he didn’t. And Shelley didn’t have to be in that doorway. Shelley could have been on Elm; he could have been at the corner of Houston. He could have been down by the Grassy Knoll. Anything was possible.
There were 75 employees of the TSBD and most of them were outside; however, only a small handful were in the doorway. Oswald knowing that Shelley was in the doorway is huge; it is powerful. It shows that Oswald had direct knowledge of the circumstances in that doorway- who was there.
And he must have meant "during" the assassination and not after because Shelley wasn’t out there "after." Shelley left immediately with Lovelady for the tracks and re-entered through the back door. Shelley was not milling around out in front when Oswald left for home.
Now, as for the rest, you are making a lot of assumptions, Robert: unwarranted assumptions.
Oswald denied guilt many times. I don’t know the exact number, but it had to be at least 7 or 8. At times, he was adamant, but he was never as adamant as Ralph Cinque would be under the circumstances. And as to why, who knows? It may be that I am more adamant by nature and more easily enraged.
Oswald never really reacted all that angry. I would have reacted very angry, and my denials would have been fierce.
You ask why he didn’t scream to the reporters, “I was in the doorway!” Well, why didn’t he scream, “I work for the US government! I have connections to the FBI and the CIA. I am on their payroll. There are people who will vouch for me, that I am a US intelligence agent and have been for many years. I did not kill the President!”
Don’t you think if he had said that that it would at least have given pause to the idea that he was a lone-nut assassin? I should think that that would have been at least as effective as saying he was in the doorway.
You realize that he was only a few feet outside the building, and he was surrounded by building on 4 sides: left, right, above, and behind. And you could even say below. And he was quite a ways from the sidewalk in front. It was like he was in a cave.
If you were deep in a cave, but you could see the light at the opening, would you consider yourself inside or outside?
Remember that Oswald had no idea that his photograph was taken in that doorway. So, how really does it advance his innocence if he was a few feet out the door as opposed to being a few feet inside the door? Both are equally far from the 6th floor.
The question was framed by the reporter. “Were you inside the building at the time?” What if the reporter had asked, “Were you outside with the others watching the motorcade at the time?”
What would Oswald have said? I don’t know. But, neither do you, and neither does anyone else.
It’s possible that Oswald did not want to announce publicly that he was outside. To everyone who believes that Oswald was framed, please consider: There is no doubt that Oswald was allowed to wander around freely in the 45 minutes leading up to the shooting.
Why did they let him do that? Do you think it was good for the conspirators that Oswald ate lunch in the domino room in sight of Junior Jarmon and Harold Norman? Vince Bugliosi says that happened at 12:15, but some have criticized him for making it earlier than it was just to afford Oswald more time to get up to the 6th floor. They think the encounter was more like 12:20.
Well, either way- 12:15 or 12:20- it certainly wasn’t good for the official story.
And then he was seen by Carolyn Arnold after that, reportedly as late as 12:25. Obviously, if that sighting is true, it completely destroys the official story. He could not possibly have gotten up to the 6th floor in time.
So, why didn’t they just tell Oswald to stay out of sight those 45 minutes, or at least for the last 20.
But, what reason could they give him? The conspirators did not tell Oswald that they were killing Kennedy that day. Oswald asked Junior Jarmon why people were gathering on the sidewalk that morning. He didn’t know. You, Robert, aren’t assuming that he was putting on an act for Junior Jarmon, are you?
The conspirators couldn’t tell him anything, and that’s because they couldn’t be sure he would be killed summarily. As it is, it took them 2 days to get him properly killed, and in that time, he underwent 13 hours of interrogation. It might as well have been 13 years for all he could have told them.
So, the conspirators had to make sure that after being apprehended Oswald could report nothing that would incriminate them.
So, they let him wander around freely. They took a chance. I guess they figured they could always deny any crucial claims of him being seen. It was better than empowering him with their complicity in the murder.
However, we don’t know what his handlers told him, and maybe someone did tell him to remain inside. Perhaps that explains why he only barely went outside. And perhaps that’s why he didn’t mention it publicly in response to the reporter.
But later, at his police interrogation, he did tell Fritz that he was out with Bill Shelley in front.
Robert, this kind of inquiry is interesting, and I don’t mind probing it. But, it really doesn’t matter because the images establish beyond any doubt that Oswald WAS outside. And in that respect, all of this is just noise. It’s just distraction. Focus on the images. The images are the real evidence, the decisive evidence. Doorman, Robert, is wearing Oswald’s clothes. There is no way Lovelady was dressed like that. We have to snap out of it. This is mate. It’s over. It’s Oswald in the doorway, and noise doesn't make it go away.
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