I have always maintained that it was very few and did not include Curry or Fritz.
But then, there are people like Joseph Backes who maintain that the whole department was involved in framing Oswald- not only for killing Kennedy and Tippit but also for taking a bus and cab ride. Backes actually maintains that in the midst of everything that was going on that afternoon, the Dallas Police actually launched a conspiracy to frame Oswald for riding a bus and cab that was as big and complex as the conspiracy to frame him for the murders.
I am going to post just two of the emails from this busy exchange. The first is by me, and the second is by Jim Marrs. Jim is not a member of the OIC, but he participates in some of our email exchanges.
Ralph Cinque:
Staffan asks why they bothered to interview Oswald if the DPD and the FBI knew that he was innocent.
But, Staffan, I don't know how many of them knew that. I suspect that very few in the DPD knew that. I wouldn't hazard a guess, but I'm sure it was very, very few. And none of the big names, such as Curry and Fritz. They weren't in on it. Do you think that Fritz knew about it? I certainly don't. I don't think he had any foreknowledge. I don't think he was a conspirator. I don't think he woke up that morning with any knowledge whatsoever about the day's tragic events that were coming. And, I don't think that at any time that day did he conspire with anyone to commit any criminal acts in the performance of his duties as a police captain.
LBJ's people, like Bill Moyer and Cliff Carter, called Fritz 13 times that afternoon. They wouldn't have had to do that if they knew he was one of them. They had to do it because they were applying pressure on a regular cop who was in no way part of the coup.
The conspirators wanted the Dallas Police to find for Oswald's guilt based on the phony evidence that they set up, not based on willfully framing him. It's not as though they went to Fritz and said,
"Look, we killed Kennedy, and we need to blame it on Oswald. But, we can't do it ourselves; we need your help; so get busy and make it happen."
No, no, no. It was nothing like that. It was never anything like that. The investigation proceeded with all due propriety. So, of course they were going to interview Oswald.
Jim Marrs:
Howdy,
Give the poor old DPD a break. Yes, a few (probably less than a handful) Dallas officers were involved in the assassination plot, although even they were probably not aware of the full plan. The rest were trying to do their job under great handicaps. Understand that many of the Dallas cops augmented their meager police pay by continuing to serve in military reserve units, thus still under military command. Yes, the police work was in some cases shoddy and unsophisticated. They were manipulated by the federal authorities. Attached is page 195 of Vol. IV of the Warren Commission Hearings. I believe both Chief Curry and Capt. Fritz were not involved in the conspiracy but in the aftermath were overridden by both federal authorities and local Democratic Party officials loyal to LBJ. Read at the bottom of the page how the DPD was pressured from Washington (Cliff Carter according to rumor at the time) to turn over all assassination evidence the night of the assassination. Note in fourth paragraph from the top how Fritz argued against this as he was trying to mount an investigation. Also note that despite a promise to return the evidence to Dallas, this was not done. Since the feds (particularly the FBI) were not officially called into the case until Tuesday, Nov. 27, this means the Bureau had care, custody and control over ALL the assassination evidence for more than three full days with no public oversight or chain of evidence. No wonder so much evidence is in controversy. There is no telling what was added or deleted.
By the way, I am convinced that, as could be expected considering the momentousness of the case, there were tape recordings of Oswald's statements made by the DPD. Detective Joe Cody once told me how he personally had installed the microphone in the interrogation room. The actual recording machine was in another room which allowed DPD officials to state correctly that the interview room was too small to house a recording machine. I still believe that Capt. Fritz knew of the existence of these recordings but kept his silence which may explain why he kept a police guard with him for the rest of his life. He was safe as long as he maintained that no recordings existed. I still believe that such recordings may still exist and it would be quite educational to know what they contain. Having worked with both Fort Worth and Dallas police in the 1960s, it never made any sense to me that their most important prisoner was never recorded or even notes made by a stenographer.
Best regards,
Jim Marrs
And, pursuant to that, Jim attached part of the testimony of Chief Jesse Curry.
Mr. DULLES - Another general question: Have you any comments or anything you would like to say about the cooperation between the Dallas police, the Secret Service, and the FBI during this period immediately following, prior to and immediately following the assassination?
Mr. CURRY - No, sir. We have always had the best of cooperation between both of these Federal units, and all other units of the Federal and State government. I feel sure that they thought this information was important to us, they probably would have given it to us. But we certainly have not had any trouble with the FBI or with the Secret Service in any of our past associations.
Mr. DULLES - I was going a little further. I mean, was the cooperation whole-hearted and open and frank as far as you could tell?
Mr. CURRY - Yes, sir; as far as I could tell, it was.
Mr. DULLES - Was there any problem created because of the possible not conflict of authority, but question as to who had responsibility of particular areas here as between you as chief of police and the Secret Service and the FBI?
Mr. CURRY - Prior to the President's visit, no; there was nothing there.
Mr. DULLES - Prior to or subsequent to?
Mr. CURRY - Now, subsequent to that, we felt this, that this was a murder that had been committed in the county, city and county of Dallas, and that we had prior, I mean we had jurisdiction over this. The FBI actually had no jurisdiction over it, the Secret Service actually had no jurisdiction over it. But in an effort to cooperate with these agencies we went all out to do whatever they wanted us to do that we could do to let them observe what was taking place, but actually we knew that this was a case that happened in Dallas, Tex., and would have to be tried in Dallas, Tex., and it was our responsibility to gather the evidence and present the evidence.
We kept getting calls from the FBI. They wanted this evidence up in Washington, in the laboratory, and there was some discussion, Fritz told me, he says, "Well, I need the evidence here, I need to get some people to try to identify the gun, to try to identify this pistol and these things, and if it is in Washington how can I do it?"
But we finally, the night, about midnight of Friday night, we agreed to let the FBI have all the evidence and they said they would bring it to their laboratory and they would have an agent stand by and when they were finished with it to return it to us.
Mr. DULLES - Another general question: Have you any comments or anything you would like to say about the cooperation between the Dallas police, the Secret Service, and the FBI during this period immediately following, prior to and immediately following the assassination?
Mr. CURRY - No, sir. We have always had the best of cooperation between both of these Federal units, and all other units of the Federal and State government. I feel sure that they thought this information was important to us, they probably would have given it to us. But we certainly have not had any trouble with the FBI or with the Secret Service in any of our past associations.
Mr. DULLES - I was going a little further. I mean, was the cooperation whole-hearted and open and frank as far as you could tell?
Mr. CURRY - Yes, sir; as far as I could tell, it was.
Mr. DULLES - Was there any problem created because of the possible not conflict of authority, but question as to who had responsibility of particular areas here as between you as chief of police and the Secret Service and the FBI?
Mr. CURRY - Prior to the President's visit, no; there was nothing there.
Mr. DULLES - Prior to or subsequent to?
Mr. CURRY - Now, subsequent to that, we felt this, that this was a murder that had been committed in the county, city and county of Dallas, and that we had prior, I mean we had jurisdiction over this. The FBI actually had no jurisdiction over it, the Secret Service actually had no jurisdiction over it. But in an effort to cooperate with these agencies we went all out to do whatever they wanted us to do that we could do to let them observe what was taking place, but actually we knew that this was a case that happened in Dallas, Tex., and would have to be tried in Dallas, Tex., and it was our responsibility to gather the evidence and present the evidence.
We kept getting calls from the FBI. They wanted this evidence up in Washington, in the laboratory, and there was some discussion, Fritz told me, he says, "Well, I need the evidence here, I need to get some people to try to identify the gun, to try to identify this pistol and these things, and if it is in Washington how can I do it?"
But we finally, the night, about midnight of Friday night, we agreed to let the FBI have all the evidence and they said they would bring it to their laboratory and they would have an agent stand by and when they were finished with it to return it to us.
Mr. DULLES - An agent of the police force, you mean?
Mr. CURRY - An agent of the FBI.
Mr. DULLES - FBI?
Mr. CURRY - Yes.
Mr. DULLES - There was no agent of the Dallas police that went to Washington with the evidence?
Mr. CURRY - Not to my knowledge.
Mr. RANKIN - Did that work out all right so far?
Mr. CURRY - Well, not exactly, because they were to give us pictures of everything that was brought to Washington, and Fritz tells me that some of these little items that it was very poor reproduction of some of the items on microfilm.
Subsequently they photographed these things in Washington and sent us copies, some 400, I think, 400 copies of different items. So far as I know, we have never received any of that evidence back. It is still in Washington, I guess.
Perhaps the Commission has it.
Mr. RANKIN - Yes; the Commission is still working with it.
Mr. CURRY - Yes.
Mr. RANKIN - But apparently the FBI tried to carry out their agreement with you, didn't they?
Mr. CURRY - Yes; they did.
Mr. RANKIN - And it is a question of whether or not their reproductions were as good as you would like to have?
Mr. CURRY - There were made, some of them, in the office down in Dallas, they were in a tremendous hurry to get all of these items to the laboratory here in Washington, and our only concern was this, that if this ease is tried in Dallas, we need the evidence to be presented here in a court in Dallas and we were a little bit apprehensive about it if it gets to Washington will it be available to us when we need it. If we need somebody to identify, attempt to identify the gun or other items will it be here for them to see? And that was our only concern.
We got several calls insisting we send this, and nobody would tell me exactly who it was that was insisting, "just say I got a call from Washington, and they wanted this evidence up there," insinuated it was someone in high authority that was requesting this, and we finally agreed as a matter of trying to cooperate with them, actually.
Mr. DULLES - Have you any more questions?
Mr. MCCLOY - Not at this stage.
Mr. RANKIN - Shall we convene at 2?
Mr. DULLES - Mr. Murray, do you have any? Mr. MURRAY - No, thank you.
(Whereupon, at 12:45 p.m., the President's Commission recessed.)
Mr. CURRY - No, sir. We have always had the best of cooperation between both of these Federal units, and all other units of the Federal and State government. I feel sure that they thought this information was important to us, they probably would have given it to us. But we certainly have not had any trouble with the FBI or with the Secret Service in any of our past associations.
Mr. DULLES - I was going a little further. I mean, was the cooperation whole-hearted and open and frank as far as you could tell?
Mr. CURRY - Yes, sir; as far as I could tell, it was.
Mr. DULLES - Was there any problem created because of the possible not conflict of authority, but question as to who had responsibility of particular areas here as between you as chief of police and the Secret Service and the FBI?
Mr. CURRY - Prior to the President's visit, no; there was nothing there.
Mr. DULLES - Prior to or subsequent to?
Mr. CURRY - Now, subsequent to that, we felt this, that this was a murder that had been committed in the county, city and county of Dallas, and that we had prior, I mean we had jurisdiction over this. The FBI actually had no jurisdiction over it, the Secret Service actually had no jurisdiction over it. But in an effort to cooperate with these agencies we went all out to do whatever they wanted us to do that we could do to let them observe what was taking place, but actually we knew that this was a case that happened in Dallas, Tex., and would have to be tried in Dallas, Tex., and it was our responsibility to gather the evidence and present the evidence.
We kept getting calls from the FBI. They wanted this evidence up in Washington, in the laboratory, and there was some discussion, Fritz told me, he says, "Well, I need the evidence here, I need to get some people to try to identify the gun, to try to identify this pistol and these things, and if it is in Washington how can I do it?"
But we finally, the night, about midnight of Friday night, we agreed to let the FBI have all the evidence and they said they would bring it to their laboratory and they would have an agent stand by and when they were finished with it to return it to us.
Mr. DULLES - Another general question: Have you any comments or anything you would like to say about the cooperation between the Dallas police, the Secret Service, and the FBI during this period immediately following, prior to and immediately following the assassination?
Mr. CURRY - No, sir. We have always had the best of cooperation between both of these Federal units, and all other units of the Federal and State government. I feel sure that they thought this information was important to us, they probably would have given it to us. But we certainly have not had any trouble with the FBI or with the Secret Service in any of our past associations.
Mr. DULLES - I was going a little further. I mean, was the cooperation whole-hearted and open and frank as far as you could tell?
Mr. CURRY - Yes, sir; as far as I could tell, it was.
Mr. DULLES - Was there any problem created because of the possible not conflict of authority, but question as to who had responsibility of particular areas here as between you as chief of police and the Secret Service and the FBI?
Mr. CURRY - Prior to the President's visit, no; there was nothing there.
Mr. DULLES - Prior to or subsequent to?
Mr. CURRY - Now, subsequent to that, we felt this, that this was a murder that had been committed in the county, city and county of Dallas, and that we had prior, I mean we had jurisdiction over this. The FBI actually had no jurisdiction over it, the Secret Service actually had no jurisdiction over it. But in an effort to cooperate with these agencies we went all out to do whatever they wanted us to do that we could do to let them observe what was taking place, but actually we knew that this was a case that happened in Dallas, Tex., and would have to be tried in Dallas, Tex., and it was our responsibility to gather the evidence and present the evidence.
We kept getting calls from the FBI. They wanted this evidence up in Washington, in the laboratory, and there was some discussion, Fritz told me, he says, "Well, I need the evidence here, I need to get some people to try to identify the gun, to try to identify this pistol and these things, and if it is in Washington how can I do it?"
But we finally, the night, about midnight of Friday night, we agreed to let the FBI have all the evidence and they said they would bring it to their laboratory and they would have an agent stand by and when they were finished with it to return it to us.
Mr. DULLES - An agent of the police force, you mean?
Mr. CURRY - An agent of the FBI.
Mr. DULLES - FBI?
Mr. CURRY - Yes.
Mr. DULLES - There was no agent of the Dallas police that went to Washington with the evidence?
Mr. CURRY - Not to my knowledge.
Mr. RANKIN - Did that work out all right so far?
Mr. CURRY - Well, not exactly, because they were to give us pictures of everything that was brought to Washington, and Fritz tells me that some of these little items that it was very poor reproduction of some of the items on microfilm.
Subsequently they photographed these things in Washington and sent us copies, some 400, I think, 400 copies of different items. So far as I know, we have never received any of that evidence back. It is still in Washington, I guess.
Perhaps the Commission has it.
Mr. RANKIN - Yes; the Commission is still working with it.
Mr. CURRY - Yes.
Mr. RANKIN - But apparently the FBI tried to carry out their agreement with you, didn't they?
Mr. CURRY - Yes; they did.
Mr. RANKIN - And it is a question of whether or not their reproductions were as good as you would like to have?
Mr. CURRY - There were made, some of them, in the office down in Dallas, they were in a tremendous hurry to get all of these items to the laboratory here in Washington, and our only concern was this, that if this ease is tried in Dallas, we need the evidence to be presented here in a court in Dallas and we were a little bit apprehensive about it if it gets to Washington will it be available to us when we need it. If we need somebody to identify, attempt to identify the gun or other items will it be here for them to see? And that was our only concern.
We got several calls insisting we send this, and nobody would tell me exactly who it was that was insisting, "just say I got a call from Washington, and they wanted this evidence up there," insinuated it was someone in high authority that was requesting this, and we finally agreed as a matter of trying to cooperate with them, actually.
Mr. DULLES - Have you any more questions?
Mr. MCCLOY - Not at this stage.
Mr. RANKIN - Shall we convene at 2?
Mr. DULLES - Mr. Murray, do you have any? Mr. MURRAY - No, thank you.
(Whereupon, at 12:45 p.m., the President's Commission recessed.)
No comments:
Post a Comment
Note: Only a member of this blog may post a comment.