Oswald in the doorway: the blog of the Oswald Innocence Campaign, by Ralph Cinque

"And when  she got there (to the bottom of the stairs) she (Vickey) saw Lovelady and Shelley."

Backes, you stupid, dumb, mudder-fucker! How many times do I have to tell you that, according to Barry Ernest and Sylvia Styles, Victoria Adams denied ever seeing Shelley and Lovelady. 

"But, if you invent an exercise for both men and have them outside for minutes, then Adams could not have seen them when she ran down the stairs."

SHE DIDN'T SEE THEM! SHE DENIED SEEING THEM! SHE SAID NEVER SAW THEM! SHE MADE NO SIGHTING OF THEM!

"It's not that Shelley and Lovelady see Adams, it's that Adams comes down the stairs and sees them."

Not according to Barry Ernest:

"Did Victoria Adams see William Shelley and Billy Lovelady on the first floor when she arrived there? Miss Adams is quoted as saying she did. In fact, that was the basis used by the Warren Commission to discredit her and dismiss her entire testimony.  But her admission she saw and even spoke to those men was contained in only two official interviews, the circumstances surrounding each being highly suspect. In several previous interviews given to additional authorities, not a word was mentioned by her of those two men despite the fact she remained consistent throughout with descriptions of various other supplementary details. Current evidence never explored by the Commission now corroborates that the encounter did not take place."

"It really doesn't matter what Vicky Adams said, or what Shelley and Lovelady said to the Warren Commission. They were going to use them to discredit here."

But, they could have used them that way that no matter what Shelley and Lovelady did beforehand. They could have just stayed outside a little while and then come in. Or, they could have just come in and milled around a little while inside. They didn't have to delay anything or anyone except Vicky. 

Furthermore, both you and bpete are being IDIOTS! It has to be assumed that Shelley and Lovelady saw Vicky. Supposedly, she told them that the President had been shot. That implies that she saw them, and that they saw her, and therefore, it meant that the ambiguity of their testimony has to be taken as their having seen her. 

Mr. BELIN - When you got to the bottom of the first floor, did you see anyone there as you entered the first floor from the stairway? 
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Who did you see?
Miss ADAMS - Mr. Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady.
Mr. BELIN - Where did you see them on the first floor?
Miss ADAMS - Well, this is the stairs, and this is the Houston Street dock that I went out. They were approximately in this position here, so I don't know how you would describe that.
Mr. BELIN - You are looking now at a first floor plan or diagram of the Texas School Book Depository, and you have pointed to a position where you encountered Bill Lovelady and Mr. Bill Shelley?
Miss ADAMS - That's correct.
Mr. BELIN - It would be slightly east of the front of the east elevator, and probably as far south as the length of the elevator, is that correct?
Miss ADAMS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - I have a document here called Commission's Exhibit No. 496, which includes a diagram of the first floor, and there is a No. 7 and a circle on it, and I have pointed to a place marked No. 7 on the diagram. Is that correct?
Miss ADAMS - That is approximate.
Mr. BELIN - Between the time you got off the stairs and the time you got to this point when you say you encountered them, which was somewhat to the south and a little bit east of the front of the east elevator, did you see any other employees there?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Any other people prior to the time you saw them?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Now when you were running down the stairs on your trip down the stairs, did you hear anyone using the Stairs?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Did you hear anyone calling for an elevator?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Did you see the foreman, Roy Truly? Did you see the superintendent of the warehouse, Roy S. Truly?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir; I did not.
Mr. BELIN - What about any motorcycle police officers?
Miss ADAMS - No, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Now what did you do after you encountered Mr. Shelley and Mr. Lovelady?
Miss ADAMS - I said I believed the President was shot.
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember what they said?
Miss ADAMS - Nothing.
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?
Miss ADAMS - I proceeded out to the Houston Street dock.
   
So, that settles it. According to the Warren Commission, she definitely saw and spoke to Shelley and Lovelady. And therefore, according to the Warren Commission, Shelley's and Lovelady's ambiguous statements did support it. 

Now, what bpete is saying is that the Warren Commission was full of shit, that Shelley's and Lovelady's statements did NOT support it. But nevertheless, the assumption is that they did, and until Barry Ernest, no one was disputing it. No one was even talking about it. 

But regardless, it makes no difference what Shelley and Lovelady were doing and where they were doing it in the minutes prior to their claimed encounter with Victoria Adams. And when I say "claimed" I mean claimed, or at least inferred, by the Warren Commission- which bpete says was full of shit. And Barry Ernest also says they were full of shit and made up all the testimony of Vickie having seen and spoken to S&L. And you agree that S&L's testimonies were ambiguous but that it doesn't matter. What Lovelady actually said is "irrelevant" according to you. 

No, Backes. It is not irrelevant. What is irrelevant is what he did beforehand. It doesn't matter what delayed him. It doesn't matter if he was delayed at all. He could have been there all along at the bottom of the stairs and saw Vickie when she came down.  

There was no need for a trek to the tracks. 
There was no need for a trek to the tracks.
There was no need for a trek to the tracks.
There was no need for a trek to the tracks.
There was no need for a trek to the tracks.

You're stupid, Backes.