Now, we better look at Patrick Dean, a uniformed officer who became part of the 5th floor team who were minding Ruby in the immediate aftermath of the shooting.
Note that we see Dean on the periphery of the Penguin cluster around Bookhout, but he doesn't get in the thick of it.
Mr. GRIFFIN - Now, as I understand from your statement, and interrupt me if I am incorrect, when you saw Ruby shoot Oswald, you moved toward the struggle and then Ruby was taken into the jail office, and did you follow them on in?
Mr. DEAN - Yes, sir. I ran immediately, jumped over these cars, or one of them, jumped over the hood of it, over the top of it, and they were dragging--Ruby and several detectives that were subduing him were about at the door,
I don't know about jumping over any cars like Batman, but I'm pretty sure this is him:
And that is the last we see of Patrick Dean until after the scuffle is over when he returns to the garage and does an interview with Bob Huffaker.
Mr. GRIFFIN - Did you hear, between the time that you saw Ruby move toward Oswald and the time that you reached him, did you hear anything said?
Mr. DEAN - No, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN - Now, what did you do when you reached Ruby?
Mr. DEAN - Well, I ran to assist, whatever I could do, or assist the officers, not knowing exactly what had happened---or I knew that there had been a shooting. However, they had enough men that were subduing him, and I asked the question, when they had him on the floor inside the jail office, "Who in the world is it?" And--
Mr. GRIFFIN - Couldn't you tell by looking at him?
Mr. DEAN - No; at the time I couldn't see him because there were so many over him. And they were well, his face was hidden from me by the amount of officers that were around him. I said, "Who in the world is it?" And evidently I was talking loud over all the other voices, and evidently Ruby heard me and said, "I am Jack Ruby. You all know me."
Mr. GRIFFIN - And how long did you remain with Jack Ruby there in the jail office?
Mr. DEAN - I immediately walked around to where Oswald was laying.
Mr. GRIFFIN - And how long did you remain there where Oswald was?
Mr. DEAN - Oh, maybe less than a minute. I saw that the doctor--there was an emergency doctor working on him.
Mr. GRIFFIN - Where did you go from there?
Mr. DEAN - I went back out to the basement, out to where the shooting happened.
Mr. GRIFFIN - What did you do out there?
Mr. DEAN - I was trying to keep all the people in.
Now, we have a time divergence. He makes it sound like by the time he got inside, both Ruby and Oswald were both already on the floor. And he said that there was an emergency doctor working on him. But, that could only have been Biebendorf, and the Bieb claimed in his original testimony that he did not enter the jail office until several minutes after the shooting. He said that they wouldn't let him in. And he never said he "worked" on Oswald. On the contrary, he said that he assumed Oswald was dead. Why would he work on a dead guy? He said that someone had pulled up his clothes exposing the wound and that it looked clean (no blood). He described the location as the 5th of 6th rib. It was actually the 7th. But, he never claimed to try to do anything to try to help or resuscitate Oswald. So, why did Dean say that the doctor was working on him?
So after that, Dean went back out to the basement, and that's when, presumably, he did his interview with Huffaker.
Mr. GRIFFIN - Now, did there come a time while you were down there in the basement that you were interviewed by TV men?
Mr. DEAN - Yes, sir; that was after I had--just some few minutes, I don't know, that several newsmen had--or did interview me, yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN - Do you remember which TV station that was?
Mr. DEAN - Tom Pettit is with NBC, I believe. I did know one of the local men, Bob Huffaker. He is with KRLD-TV. But there were several. I don't know
Mr. GRIFFIN - All right. Now, there was also a time, undoubtedly, that you were interviewed, or somebody quoted you in the newspapers, and there was a great to-do about this, as I understand, in the police department. Somebody claimed-
Mr. DEAN - Misquoted me, yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN - Now, was that at this particular TV interview; was that when you made the statement?
Mr. DEAN - The newspaper article that appeared, the news or the writer of that story told me that he wrote that story from my initial interview that was given shortly after the shooting, yes.
Mr. GRIFFIN - Now, do you recall talking with that man down there?
Mr. DEAN - The man that wrote the
Mr. GRIFFIN - Yea.
Mr. DEAN - No, sir. I wouldn't know him by sight now.
Mr. GRIFFIN - Do you recall ever seeing that man?
Mr. DEAN - No, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN - Now, after you had this TV interview, what did you do?
Mr. DEAN - I went to the third floor.
Mr. GRIFFIN - And where did you go on the third floor?
Mr. DEAN - Just as I got off of the elevator Chief Curry approached me, along with another man. He introduced him very quickly as Forrest V. Sorrels, with the Secret Service, or head of the Secret Service here in Dallas, gave me his keys to the outer door that has--or access to the jail elevator, told me to take Mr. Sorrels to the fifth floor to talk to Ruby.
Mr. GRIFFIN - Now, between the time that you left the jail office
Mr. DEAN - All right.
Mr. GRIFFIN - And you went into the basement area and had the TV interview and then went up to the third floor, did you talk with any of the police officers who had been down there in the basement area?
Mr. DEAN - No, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN - While you were in the Jail office, before you came out, did you talk to any of the officers who were there, who were in the jail office; did you talk with them?
Mr. DEAN - No, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN - Now, why were you going up to the third floor?
Mr. DEAN - I was going to Captain Fritz' office.
Mr. GRIFFIN - And what were you going to do up there?
Mr. DEAN - I was just going to see if Jack Ruby was in Captain Fritz' office, or whether he was taken immediately to the jail. I didn't know where he was taken to.
Mr. GRIFFIN - Why did you want to go up to see Jack Ruby?
Mr. DEAN - To see if they were this was in my mind, to see if they were going to go ahead and identify him, because I knew other pressmen and other people were going to be asking me, since I had this interview, and see if--did he want me to go ahead and identify him or do what I did in the initial interview, say that this information will have to come from Captain Fritz' office. It really wasn't significant. I knew that I would be talked to at later times all during the day and pressed for the identity of this man, and I wanted to ask them there did they want us to release it or want them to keep it and release it themselves.
Mr. GRIFFIN - You had already told the newsmen?
Mr. DEAN - Yes, sir. I had already told the newsmen this. I .didn't identify the man.
Mr. GRIFFIN - You had already told the newsmen that the man who shot Oswald was Ruby?
Mr. DEAN - No, sir. I didn't. I didn't identify the man. They asked me did recognize this man. I said "Yes." And they asked me could I tell them who he was, and-I said I had rather not, and I did not identify him as Ruby. I identified him as a businessman in the city of Dallas, but I did tell them that I recognized the man by sight.
Mr. GRIFFIN - Now, when you got up on the third floor, where did you see Chief Curry?
Mr. DEAN - Just as I got off of the elevator.
Mr. GRIFFIN - And did you ask him to discuss this problem with you?
Mr. DEAN - No, sir. He immediately introduced--said, "This is Mr. Forrest V. Sorrels, head of the Secret Service in Dallas, and take my keys and take him to the fifth floor to interview Ruby."
Alright, so he went out to the basement and did an interview, and then he went up to the 3rd floor, thinking that Ruby was there, and then he was told by Curry to take SS Agent Sorrels up to the 5th floor to see Ruby.
Mr. GRIFFIN - You got up to the fifth floor, who was with Ruby?
Mr. DEAN - Detective Archer, D. R. Archer, Detective T. D. McMillon and Detective B. S. Clardy is the three, and that's the only three I can recall standing there. I think that was all that was with him.
Mr. GRIFFIN - Was there a jailer there?
Mr. DEAN - Not standing there necessarily by him. There, of course, are jailers all over the floor, and you know, there were not particularly around him though. The only ones I can recall standing close to Ruby was those three detectives.
Mr. GRIFFIN - What state of dress or undress was Ruby in at that time?
Mr. DEAN - He was stripped to his shorts.
So, how much time are we talking about here? Say he was in the garage for 10 minutes, then he goes up to the 3rd floor and is told to take Sorrels up to the 5th floor. He gets there, and Ruby is in his underwear. So how long is that? I'm going to say 15 to 20 minutes.
So, 15 to 20 minutes after shooting Oswald, they had Jack Ruby down to his shorts. I want to repeat that it is absolutely mandatory that they removed his handcuffs in order for him to get down to his shorts, and that is true whether he took off his clothes himself or was undressed by those men.
Doesn't it seem odd to you that they would cuff Ruby in the jail office and then take him up to the 5th floor and immediately uncuff him? It seems odd to me.
Mr. GRIFFIN - And were Archer, Clardy, and McMillon ground during this conversation?
Mr. DEAN - Yes, sir. I think they stood there.
Mr. GRIFFIN - And how long would you say that Sorrels talked with Ruby?
Mr. DEAN - Oh, 10 minutes.
Mr. GRIFFIN - Now, do you remember anything that Sorrels learned from Ruby?
Mr. DEAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN - Can you tell us what that was?
Mr. DEAN - Yes. He asked him what possessed him to do it. Of course, I have testified to all this in court. And he said that he was---had been despondent over the assassination of the President, also Officer Tippit, and that he was a very emotional man, and that out of grief for both these people, was one of the motivations, and that he couldn't see any reason for a long and lengthy trial, even though he believed in due process of law.
A long and lengthy trial? What's the difference between long and lengthy? Isn't that redundant? But, those were Dean's words. You don't think Ruby referred to a "long and lengthy trial", do you? I hope not. So, Officer Dean was embellishing.
Mr. GRIFFIN - Did he talk with Sorrels at all at that time about how he got into the basement?
Mr. DEAN - No, sir. I asked him--Sorrels didn't ask any questions relative to that. I did.
Mr. GRIFFIN - How long after Sorrels finished talking with Ruby did you ask that question?
Mr. DEAN - Immediately. After Mr. Sorrels said, "Okay. Thank you." And I don't recall whether Mr. Sorrels stayed there or whether he walked off.
Mr. GRIFFIN - Who else was present when you asked Ruby that question?
Mr. DEAN - I think McMillon and them were still there. I just really didn't--I knew that I wasn't by myself with him. I knew that there was someone there and I believe it was McMillon and Archer that had stayed there. I am not
Mr. GRIFFIN - What else did you talk with Ruby about, after Sorrels finished talking to him?
Mr. DEAN - After Sorrels finished, I said, "Ruby, I want to ask you a couple of questions myself." And he said, "All right." I said, "How did you get in the basement?" And he said, "I walked in the Main Street ramp." And he told me, he said, "I have just been to the Western Union to mail a money order to Fort Worth." And he said, "I walked from the Western Union to the ramp." And he said, "I saw Sam Pierce "and he referred to him as Sam Pierce "drive out of the basement. At that time, at the time the car drove out is when I walked in."
Mr. GRIFFIN - Is there a Sam Pierce on the force?
Mr. DEAN - Yes, sir. He is a lieutenant. He is here tonight.
Mr. GRIFFIN - His name is also Rio Pierce?
Mr. DEAN - Lt. Rio S. Pierce, yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN - Does he go by the. name Sam?
Mr. DEAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN - Does he also go by the name Rio?
Mr. DEAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. GRIFFIN - Is one used
Mr. DEAN - Just as much as the other. Depends on who met him under which name.
Mr. GRIFFIN - All right. Now, what else did he talk to you about at that particular time?
Mr. DEAN - After he answered that question, I said, "How long had you been in the basement when Oswald came into your view?" And he said, "I just walked in. I just walked to the bottom of the ramp when he came out."
That's pretty straight-forward, and it's consistent with what we've heard before. But notice that it says nothing about Ruby being confused about what happened, about not remembering anything between the time he reached the bottom of the ramp and his being pounced upon by police.
After that, Dean said he brought some jail keys to Curry and then he went back to the basement to see how things were there, and then he went to Parkland Hospital and got there shortly before Oswald died at 1:07. Then, he went in to view Oswald's body with Oswald's mother and Marina.
Dean's testimony was very lengthy compared to the others, and took multiple sessions, but he said he didn't lay eyes on Ruby again until the trial.
So, who was present at the first Ruby interrogation that Fritz did at 3:30? That's the next thing I need to find out.